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Author Topic:   Mighty Crusaders tpb
outpost2
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posted May 05, 2003 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for outpost2        Reply w/Quote
Archie Comics is considering more inexpensive trade paperbacks like last year's "Shield". This is great news!

http://www.newsarama.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000044;p=

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BillNolan
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posted May 05, 2003 09:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillNolan   Click Here to Email BillNolan        Reply w/Quote
I agree with the columnist's opinion that the Golden Age reprints would make more money if they stopped, basically, giving them away for cheap money. Archive-style hardcovers are the only proven way to go for GA reprints.

- Bill

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Amentep
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posted May 05, 2003 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Amentep   Click Here to Email Amentep        Reply w/Quote
I still haven't seen the Shield trade paperback [or for that matter, the Archie Americana series].

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dylanfan
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posted May 05, 2003 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dylanfan   Click Here to Email dylanfan        Reply w/Quote
From the sound of it, they aren't handling this material correctly. They need to go the HC route to cover their bottom line. $10?!?!?! Gee whiz....

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BillNolan
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posted May 05, 2003 11:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillNolan   Click Here to Email BillNolan        Reply w/Quote
It also sounds like they're not producing the reprints in the most cost-effective manner. This is not 1989. There is no need to destroy the existing comics to produce reprints. Haven't these folks heard of computers?

- Bill

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James Friel
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posted May 05, 2003 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Friel   Click Here to Email James Friel        Reply w/Quote
Archie Comics seems to be a universe of its own. They've managed to remain successful on the newsstands longer than any other company, and they have a low-priced line of successful trades in the Archie Americana books, and all their perceptions seem to be influenced by that. They know how to do a very few things very successfully and really pretty well, but they seem unable to learn new tricks (though the expansion into trade paperbacks a few years ago was, for them, a breathtakingly radical departure).

It is puzzling, though, that they're still Theaksonizing. I'm especially curious now that I know that at how their profit structure is supposed to work on the Shield book, unless they already owned copies of all those comics and aren't counting their market value as part of the cost of production in their accounting.

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BearPaws
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posted May 05, 2003 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BearPaws        Reply w/Quote
For me, $10 was just the right price for the Shield TPB -- I wouldn't consider paying $50 for material that was, well, childish by comparison to all of the Golden Age DC Archives. The quality of the reproduction was perfectly adequate for the price, and the material just doesn't have the same sense of historical significance that, say, Superman Archives does.

As for Archie Archives (try typing that three times fast), I have to say that I'd rather not see a chronological reproduction of every story they ever published -- rather, a series of thick TPBs: "Best of 1941", "Best of 1942", etc. Each story would be selected not just for first apperances and comedic value, but for its representation of "current" society. Jughead likes burgers better than girls: Yawn. Betty tries to claim a date with Archie by sewing a patch on his butt: Priceless.

Besides, there's virtually no sense of continuity in Archie -- Veronica had three different origins within her first few years, and Mr. Lodge's first name has varied almost as much. Archie doesn't scream "completeness" to me -- it needs to be recorded as a history of teen society, and that's best done in small, appropriately selected, doses.

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"I knew I wasn't risking my secret identity with you! After all,
     if I can't trust the President of the United States, who can I trust?"
• Superman to JFK, Action Comics #309, February 1964

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NecessaryImpurity
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posted May 05, 2003 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NecessaryImpurity        Reply w/Quote
That seems like a proper approach to Archie. I wouldn't want every panel either, simply because there is a lot of repetition and recycling. A "Best of" series seems just right. I'd like a HC series like "Best of the 1940s", "Best of the 1950s", etc.

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dylanfan
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posted May 05, 2003 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dylanfan   Click Here to Email dylanfan        Reply w/Quote
They have a softcover "Best of" by decade series already. Kinda skimpy, though....only 120-130 pages per volume.

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daytripper
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posted May 05, 2003 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daytripper   Click Here to Email daytripper        Reply w/Quote
The Mighty Crusaders was good for a few laughs, I'll probably end up getting it. Jerry Siegel and Paul Reinman worked on the series, and while Reinman was not a great artist by any means, he did the job on the Crusaders. Really, at times the Mighty Crusaders was just a little spoof on the Marvel superheroes. Can anyone tell me who else drew and wrote those stories? The above two names is all I can come up with from memory.

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Allen Smith

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India Ink
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posted May 05, 2003 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink        Reply w/Quote
I only ever read one Mighty Crusaders comic, but it was one of the greatest comics I ever read.

I know I didn't buy it, but somehow it came into our house without its cover. A big giant thing. And unlike the DC giants I read it was more than just a collection of stories.

It started out with Flyman and then unfolded an elaborate story in many chapters, involving other Crusaders, and a villain called the Spider. But if that wasn't enough, in addition to those chapters, there were other stories. A story of the Web--which was probably close to what Marvel comics were like, although I didn't read Marvel, but this seemed to go beyond even the realism of Marvel to absolute absurd extremes--and a couple of stories about The Shield and The Comet, and one about the Black Hood.

This comic was absolutely monumental. I spent months and years pouring over that one comic trying to deduce just what these guys were all about. I made up all kinds of stories in my head about them. To me this one comic was the absolute achievement in comic book superheroes. It was what I wanted all comics to be, and few ever came anywhere close to being.

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Cave Carson
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posted May 05, 2003 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cave Carson   Click Here to Email Cave Carson        Reply w/Quote
India Ink:

The comic you described must be SUPER HEROES VERSUS SUPER VILLAINS # 1, from 1966.

Beautiful squarebound giant with a feast of reprints, all in the order you just described.

FLY MAN--"The Creature From The Abyss"
"The Fly Man's Partners in Peril!" Part 1
"Battle Of The Super-Heroes!" Part 2
"The Wicked Web Of The Wily Spider!" Part 3
THE WEB--"The Mad Caper Of The Madman"
THE SHIELD--"Evilo, The Tempter" art by Sekowsky

I picked one of these up a few years back, and it's been the crown jewel of my Mighty Comics collection ever since.

Now....if I could only find a copy of ARCHIE GIANT SERIES # 142 from Oct 1966. This is a special filled with Pureheart the Powerful tales. One of these days......

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The Anti-Life Equation
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posted May 06, 2003 03:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Anti-Life Equation        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BillNolan:
It also sounds like they're not producing the reprints in the most cost-effective manner. This is not 1989. There is no need to destroy the existing comics to produce reprints. Haven't these folks heard of computers?

- Bill


Why does everything that gets reprinted have to be a $50 hardcover to be "cost effective"? I have a soft spot in my heart for the Archie heroes, I bought the Shield tpb and I love the Archive series. That being said though, I'm not going to spend $50 per book to read about the MLJ Heroes and I have a feeling that I'm not the only one who feels this way. The Archie Heroes never kept and maintained an audience when their adventures were selling at comic book prices so what makes you think that MLJ is going to be raking in the money with them selling at archive prices?

If there is anyone in the comics field listening, not every fan requires every reprint to have all the bells and whistles on it to make it worthwhile.

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The ALE

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James Friel
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posted May 06, 2003 03:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Friel   Click Here to Email James Friel        Reply w/Quote
If Archie has good reproducable stats or original art or film (not likely) for the 1960s material, then paperback format may make perfect sense for that stuff.

I very much doubt that it can for Golden Age material, though. Especially if they're Theakstonizing their file copies--in any sane accounting system, they have to consider what they could make by selling those books instead at collectors' prices and add that to the cost.

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The Anti-Life Equation
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posted May 06, 2003 04:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Anti-Life Equation        Reply w/Quote
Let's not forget that they've been in business for over 50 years now. If producing a ten dollar reprint was financial suicide to them, I'm reasonably sure that they would have the sense to not do it. Just because some guy wrote something on the internet doesn't make it so. Call me crazy but I really don't think that the answer to the industry's woes is to slap a hardcover and a $50 price tag on everything in print.

What's next? Pat the Brat Archives #1? Where does it end?

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The ALE

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BillNolan
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posted May 06, 2003 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillNolan   Click Here to Email BillNolan        Reply w/Quote
Looks like I got to bait the price-whiners one last time before the board switch.

Sorry, everybody.

- Bill

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The Anti-Life Equation
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posted May 06, 2003 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Anti-Life Equation        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BillNolan:
Looks like I got to bait the price-whiners one last time before the board switch.

Sorry, everybody.

- Bill



Looks like you also resorted to cheap name calling too and yes that is very sorry of you.

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The ALE

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James Friel
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posted May 06, 2003 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Friel   Click Here to Email James Friel        Reply w/Quote
If Archie is able to find a way to make cheap editions of Golden Age material available and make money on it, then more power to them. And I hope they do lots more.
I'd be curious how the economics of it works, though--as far as I can see, the Shield paperback (sad to say, I'd hoped better for it) seems to be a slow seller.

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REKLEN
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posted May 06, 2003 11:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for REKLEN   Click Here to Email REKLEN        Reply w/Quote
Archie has been reprinting its best stories, alongside great new ones for years. No one has been able to do that, not Marvel, DC, or even Disney which keeps publishing the same tired old stories every five years (classics are not!)
I hate to see old comics destroyed, but Archie, if they own the books, take "NO" loss on the destroyed ones. They were paid for years ago, and the loss would be ten cents a story.
People will pick up the Archie Super hero books, at a cheap price, to see something new or different. I'm sure more people bought the first Shield paperback over any of the All-Star Archives.

Reklen

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James Friel
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posted May 07, 2003 04:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Friel   Click Here to Email James Friel        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by REKLEN:
...I hate to see old comics destroyed, but Archie, if they own the books, take "NO" loss on the destroyed ones. They were paid for years ago, and the loss would be ten cents a story.
People will pick up the Archie Super hero books, at a cheap price, to see something new or different. I'm sure more people bought the first Shield paperback over any of the All-Star Archives.

Reklen


Consider the possibility, though, that Archie's file copies are being Theakstonized to produce these trades.
Look at it this way (this is certainly the way any business person would see it):
Archie Comics has, as part of its assets, a number of extremely valuable comics from the early 1940s (and file copies tend to be pretty pristine). These assets have to be valued at their current market value--something in the thousands of dollars for each comic. If these assets are destroyed as saleable property in the making of the new books, the monetary value that is destroyed should be considered to have been part of the cost. It doesn't matter that they cost Archie little or nothing to acquire--valuable property which was part of Archie's holdings before the Theakstonizing process now no longer has that value. That's a loss, or an expenditure, depending on how you want to look at it. either way, it's part of the cost of making the reprints.

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vze2
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posted May 07, 2003 06:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vze2        Reply w/Quote
James is right, assuming that Archie owns the comics.

However, according to the Newsarama story, Victor Gorelick, the editor at Archie, says that they do not own all the comics. He says that they have to buy them for hundreds or thousands of dollars. That's definitely a loss.

However, I see no reason why Archie needs to Theakstonize their comics. If they don't need to destroy the comics, then they can rent or borrow and also reduce their expenses.

I hate to see comics needlessly destroyed, so I emailed Victor Gorelick and informed him of this fact.

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vze2
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posted May 07, 2003 06:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vze2        Reply w/Quote
James is right, assuming that Archie owns the comics.

However, according to the Newsarama story, Victor Gorelick, the editor at Archie, says that they do not own all the comics. He says that they have to buy them for hundreds or thousands of dollars. That's definitely a loss.

However, I see no reason why Archie needs to Theakstonize their comics. If they don't need to destroy the comics, then they can rent or borrow and also reduce their expenses.

I hate to see comics needlessly destroyed, so I emailed Victor Gorelick and informed him of this fact.

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vze2
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posted May 07, 2003 06:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vze2        Reply w/Quote
James is right, assuming that Archie owns the comics.

However, according to the Newsarama story, Victor Gorelick, the editor at Archie, says that they do not own all the comics. He says that they have to buy them for hundreds or thousands of dollars. That's definitely a loss.

However, I see no reason why Archie needs to Theakstonize their comics. If they don't need to destroy the comics, then they can rent or borrow and also reduce their expenses.

I hate to see comics needlessly destroyed, so I emailed Victor Gorelick and informed him of this fact.

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vze2
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posted May 07, 2003 06:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vze2        Reply w/Quote
James is right, assuming that Archie owns the comics.

However, according to the Newsarama story, Victor Gorelick, the editor at Archie, says that they do not own all the comics. He says that they have to buy them for hundreds or thousands of dollars. That's definitely a loss.

However, I see no reason why Archie needs to Theakstonize their comics. If they don't need to destroy the comics, then they can rent or borrow and also reduce their expenses.

I hate to see comics needlessly destroyed, so I emailed Victor Gorelick and informed him of this fact.

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vze2
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posted May 07, 2003 07:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vze2        Reply w/Quote
Finally, my first double post! I decided to make it count.

The funny thing is, my "Connection was refused" once and the "Document contains no data" about 10 times, not just 4.

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